河北燕達(dá)陸道培醫(yī)院新院區(qū)的竣工與搬遷標(biāo)志著其陸道培醫(yī)療集團(tuán)醫(yī)療服務(wù)能力邁向新高度。值此之際，國際血液學(xué)權(quán)威、斯坦福大學(xué)血液與骨髓移植項(xiàng)目主任、美國血液學(xué)會（ASH）候任主席Robert Negrin教授到訪，與帶領(lǐng)陸道培醫(yī)療集團(tuán)的陸佩華院長展開深度交流，雙方圍繞細(xì)胞治療技術(shù)演進(jìn)、CAR-T臨床挑戰(zhàn)與全球合作前景進(jìn)行探討，一致認(rèn)為跨地域協(xié)作與學(xué)術(shù)共享是推動全球血液病治療進(jìn)步的核心動力?！赌[瘤瞭望-血液時訊》特整理中外對話內(nèi)容，以期為血液學(xué)及細(xì)胞治療領(lǐng)域的發(fā)展提供兼具實(shí)踐參考與思想啟發(fā)的學(xué)術(shù)視角。
陸佩華教授
今年是陸道培集團(tuán)發(fā)展具有劃時代意義的一年，占地97畝的燕達(dá)陸道培醫(yī)院新院區(qū)順利竣工并完成平穩(wěn)搬遷。借此難得的機(jī)會，我們深感榮幸，能夠邀請到Robert Negrin教授蒞臨我院進(jìn)行訪問。Negrin教授是血液學(xué)領(lǐng)域享譽(yù)全球的權(quán)威學(xué)者，在過去二十年間一直擔(dān)任斯坦福大學(xué)血液與骨髓移植科主任，并曾先后擔(dān)任國際細(xì)胞治療學(xué)會（ISCT）及美國血液與骨髓移植學(xué)會（ASBMT）主席。此外，Negrin教授即將于2026年就任美國血液學(xué)會（ASH）主席。其在血液學(xué)領(lǐng)域發(fā)表了多項(xiàng)具有重大影響的學(xué)術(shù)成果，為推動學(xué)科發(fā)展作出了卓越貢獻(xiàn)。
值得強(qiáng)調(diào)的是，美國與中國是全球最具活力的兩大醫(yī)療體系，雙方在歷史沿革、組織結(jié)構(gòu)和規(guī)模方面既存在諸多相似之處，也各有特點(diǎn)。但無論體系如何，其根本宗旨始終如一——一切以患者為中心，致力于為患者提供最優(yōu)質(zhì)的醫(yī)療服務(wù)。在此，我們再次向Negrin教授致以誠摯的謝意。
Pro.Lu: This year signifies a turing point in the development of the Lu Daopei Medical Group: the new 97-acre Yan-Da Daopei Hospital campus has been successfully completed and the transition completed without disruption. On this momentous occasion, it is our distinct honor to welcome Professor Robert Negrin for a visit to our hospital. Professor Negrin is an internationally renowned authority in hematology, having served as Director of the Blood and Marrow Transplantation Program at Stanford University for the past two decades. He has previously chaired the International Society for Cellular Therapy and the American Society for Blood and Marrow Transplantation, and will assume the presidency of the American Society of Hematology in 2026. His extensive publications and transformative contributions have significantly advanced the field of hematology.
During his visit, we look forward to presenting our new campus to Professor Negrin. The United States and China represent the world’s two most dynamic healthcare systems. While historical development, organizational structures, and scales differ between our nations, both systems ultimately share the same fundamental objective: to deliver optimal care to our patients. Thank you very much.
Robert Negrin教授
今日深感榮幸能受邀蒞臨貴院，并與陸佩華教授共同見證新院區(qū)令人矚目的發(fā)展。我曾多次到訪貴院，去年亦曾來訪，然而在短短一年內(nèi)取得的進(jìn)展仍令我驚嘆。貴院是一座非凡的醫(yī)療綜合體，集卓越的活力、優(yōu)美的環(huán)境與頂尖的學(xué)術(shù)實(shí)力于一體。在我看來，中國——尤其在陸道培醫(yī)院——所取得的跨越式進(jìn)展，與我們的共同點(diǎn)遠(yuǎn)多于差異。我由衷為能參與其中感到欣喜。
正如陸教授所言，我們共同致力于探索如何更有效地治療復(fù)雜血液系統(tǒng)惡性腫瘤，始終以患者臨床獲益為最高目標(biāo)。我們之間不存在競爭，而是充滿學(xué)術(shù)協(xié)作的伙伴關(guān)系。最令我印象深刻的是陸道培醫(yī)療中心所具備的技術(shù)能力，許多在我所在機(jī)構(gòu)需外包完成的檢測和治療項(xiàng)目，在貴院均可通過院內(nèi)平臺獨(dú)立完成，這種整合能力令人贊嘆。
Pro.Negrin: First of all, it is a great honor to be here with Dr. Lu and witness the remarkable developments taking place at their hospital. I visited this hospital several years ago and was also here last year, and it is truly remarkable to witness the progress achieved within just one year. This is indeed an extraordinary comprehensive facility—a fantastic hospital brimming with vitality, aesthetic appeal, and scientific expertise. Therefore, when I come here and observe the remarkable advancements occurring in China, particularly at Lu Daopei Hospital, I find that the similarities far outweigh the differences. I am extremely delighted to be here. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we share the common goal of exploring effective treatment approaches for complex blood cancers and striving to provide better care for our patients. Hence, we collaborate closely. There is no real sense of competition; instead, the atmosphere is one of collegiality, and we work together on similar endeavors. What impresses me the most is the technological capabilities of the Lu Daopei Medical Center. At our own hospital, many of the tasks and services we offer to patients would be outsourced to other institutions, whereas here, most of these tasks are completed in-house within their own facility. It is precisely these exceptional capabilities that leave the deepest impression on me.
陸佩華教授
非常感謝您對我院的認(rèn)可和支持。我也無比榮幸曾以Robert Negrin教授為導(dǎo)師，如今我們的情誼早已超越了傳統(tǒng)師生關(guān)系的范疇。早年我在斯坦福大學(xué)Negrin教授的實(shí)驗(yàn)室中系統(tǒng)學(xué)習(xí)了CIK細(xì)胞等細(xì)胞治療技術(shù)的基礎(chǔ)知識，從那時打下的根基出發(fā)，如今我們醫(yī)院在CAR-T細(xì)胞療法上也走在了前沿。
Pro.Lu: Furthermore, I consider myself extremely fortunate and honored to have Professor Robert Negrin as my mentor, and our relationship has long transcended the mere teacher-student dynamic. My journey in this field began with learning about cellular therapies—starting with CIK cells (cytokine-induced killer cells)—in the laboratory at Stanford University. Under Dr. Rob Negrin’s guidance, I systematically acquired all the fundamental knowledge essential to this discipline. From that foundational stage, we have now advanced to the frontier of CAR-T therapy (chimeric antigen receptor T-cell therapy).
Robert Negrin教授
陸教授不僅是我的學(xué)生，更是當(dāng)今全球細(xì)胞治療領(lǐng)域最為重要的同行、合作者與領(lǐng)導(dǎo)者。每次來訪都是相互學(xué)習(xí)的過程，這種平等的學(xué)術(shù)對話恰恰是推動醫(yī)學(xué)進(jìn)步的關(guān)鍵。
Pro.Negrin: Rather, I regard Dr. Lu more as a colleague who continues to teach me new knowledge and insights, especially given that he is now one of the world's leading experts in this field. For this reason, I have come here with the primary purpose of learning from her.
陸佩華教授
提到細(xì)胞治療領(lǐng)域，其發(fā)展是一個涉及多層面的復(fù)雜議題。過去幾年間，CAR-T細(xì)胞治療技術(shù)日趨成熟，該領(lǐng)域的新進(jìn)展與突破可謂日新月異。從最初的自體CAR-T發(fā)展到通用型CAR-T，進(jìn)而推進(jìn)至體內(nèi)CAR-T技術(shù)；從CAR-T擴(kuò)展到CAR-NK、CAR-巨噬細(xì)胞等新型細(xì)胞治療策略；其應(yīng)用范疇也從血液系統(tǒng)惡性腫瘤逐步延伸至實(shí)體瘤、自身免疫性疾病領(lǐng)域。近期更有研究論文指出CAR-T技術(shù)可能具有清除衰老細(xì)胞的潛力，或?yàn)榭顾ダ现委熖峁┬路较?。足以見得這一領(lǐng)域既充滿巨大機(jī)遇，也面臨重大挑戰(zhàn)。
過去十年來，本機(jī)構(gòu)與多家CAR-T企業(yè)開展合作，共同推進(jìn)多項(xiàng)臨床試驗(yàn)，旨在使難治復(fù)發(fā)患者獲得更有效的治療選擇。盡管目前仍存在諸多挑戰(zhàn)，但我們期望通過持續(xù)優(yōu)化最終降低治療相關(guān)副作用，為患者提供更安全的治療方案。我們始終向包括Robert Negrin教授在內(nèi)的國際權(quán)威學(xué)者學(xué)習(xí)，借鑒其先進(jìn)經(jīng)驗(yàn)，以期更好地服務(wù)患者。
Pro.Lu: Well, this is indeed a lengthy and complex question. However, we have observed that CAR-T therapy has become increasingly mature over the past years, and we have witnessed numerous achievements and advances in this field even on a daily basis. The development of cellular therapies in this domain has progressed from autologous CAR-T therapy to universal CAR-T therapy, and it has now even advanced to in vivo CAR-T therapy. Beyond CAR-T therapy, the scope has further expanded to include other engineered cellular therapies such as CAR-NK (chimeric antigen receptor natural killer) cells and CAR-macrophages. Initially focused on the treatment of hematologic malignancies, the application of these cellular therapies has now extended beyond this realm to solid tumors, and it has even shown potential in the treatment of autoimmune diseases. We have also seen published research papers demonstrating that CAR-T therapy can clear senescent (aged) cells; perhaps, in the future, CAR-T therapy may even contribute to anti-aging effects. Nevertheless, it is evident that this field is filled with tremendous opportunities alongside significant challenges.
Over the past decade, our institution has collaborated with various CAR-T companies and conducted multiple clinical trials, with the hope that patients with relapsed and refractory diseases will be able to benefit from these efforts. Undoubtedly, there are still more challenges ahead, and we aspire to eventually reduce more of the side effects associated with these therapies and do more to improve the well-being of our patients. We are also learning from global experts such as Professor Robert Negrin, who is engaged in cutting-edge CAR-T research at Stanford University; we are drawing on all their valuable experiences, and once again, our ultimate goal is to continue doing more for the benefit of our patients.
Robert Negrin教授
科學(xué)研究的進(jìn)展正是通過不斷總結(jié)有效方案、分析失敗原因并持續(xù)改進(jìn)而實(shí)現(xiàn)。這一過程需要系統(tǒng)收集臨床數(shù)據(jù)、追蹤患者結(jié)局、運(yùn)用科學(xué)研究方法解析當(dāng)前面臨的挑戰(zhàn)。正如陸教授所言，我們需要通過反復(fù)迭代、開展更多臨床試驗(yàn)、相互學(xué)習(xí)經(jīng)驗(yàn)來實(shí)現(xiàn)技術(shù)優(yōu)化。科學(xué)與醫(yī)學(xué)的本質(zhì)正是在這種迭代中發(fā)展：總結(jié)成功經(jīng)驗(yàn)，摒棄無效方案，從失敗中學(xué)習(xí)，運(yùn)用技術(shù)手段深入分析患者反應(yīng)機(jī)制。
以CAR-T治療為例，目前治療失敗主要源于兩大因素：其一是靶抗原丟失導(dǎo)致CAR-T細(xì)胞無法識別靶點(diǎn)；其二是T細(xì)胞耗竭現(xiàn)象。針對這些問題，我們正通過開發(fā)雙靶點(diǎn)或多靶點(diǎn)CAR-T、采用健康供者來源的通用型CAR-T等策略予以改進(jìn)。關(guān)鍵在于深入理解治療成功與失敗的機(jī)制，并據(jù)此優(yōu)化治療方案。
需要強(qiáng)調(diào)的是，無論患者來自美國、中國、歐洲或越南，其面臨的臨床問題本質(zhì)相同。我們應(yīng)當(dāng)打破地域壁壘，加強(qiáng)國際合作與經(jīng)驗(yàn)共享，通過學(xué)術(shù)會議等交流平臺共同推動醫(yī)學(xué)進(jìn)步，這正是舉辦陸道培血液病學(xué)術(shù)大會等學(xué)術(shù)會議的重要意義所在。
最后我想說，諸位血液疾病領(lǐng)域及醫(yī)學(xué)研究的年輕從業(yè)者，你們正投身于一項(xiàng)極具意義和價值的崇高事業(yè)。陸道培醫(yī)療團(tuán)隊(duì)正是領(lǐng)域內(nèi)的典范之一——不僅擁有卓越的硬件平臺，更匯聚了一群滿懷熱忱的引領(lǐng)者——從陸道培院士無處不在的遠(yuǎn)見與精神傳承，到陸佩華教授等子輩所展現(xiàn)的榜樣力量，皆令人深受鼓舞。置身此地，你們已站在世界學(xué)術(shù)舞臺的中央，與全球同道并肩協(xié)作。我由衷地認(rèn)為，能夠?qū)⒖茖W(xué)與技術(shù)轉(zhuǎn)化為對患者的切實(shí)幫助，是職業(yè)生涯所能企及的最高成就。
Pro.Negrin: I believe Dr. Lu has covered all key points. In my view, this is precisely how we achieve progress: we identify effective approaches, pinpoint ineffective ones, and strive to make improvements. All of this is founded on collecting information and data, tracking clinical outcomes, and leveraging scientific principles to understand the challenges that lie ahead. As Dr. Lu mentioned, we continuously strive for better results—we iterate on our methods, conduct more clinical trials, learn from one another, and drive improvements. This is precisely how science and medicine advance: through an iterative process of embracing effective strategies, discarding ineffective ones, learning from failures, and utilizing technology to analyze patients in depth, thereby gaining a clear understanding of why treatments succeed for some patients.
For instance, we know that there are at least two primary reasons for treatment failure in CAR-T cell therapy. One is antigen loss, where tumor cells lose the specific target that CAR-T cells are engineered to recognize and attack. The second is T cell exhaustion, where the CAR-T cells themselves become functionally impaired and unable to sustain their anti-tumor activity. To address these challenges, we adopt multi-targeting strategies—developing dual-target or triple-target CAR-T cells—or utilize universal CAR-T cells derived from healthy donors, with the expectation that these donor-derived T cells will be less prone to exhaustion. In this way, we not only learn why certain approaches work but, more importantly, we analyze treatment failures to understand their causes and then refine our strategies for better outcomes.
I believe the most critical point here is that patients everywhere—whether in the United States, China, Europe, Vietnam, or elsewhere—face the same challenges in treating hematologic diseases. It is our collective responsibility to learn how to improve care, and this requires a global effort. We need to break down barriers, learn to collaborate, and share our experiences. This is why interactions like our meeting today, conversations between colleagues, and conferences such as the one we held last weekend are so vital—they enable us to truly share our insights and advance together.
As for the advice I would offer young physicians and scientists: this is an extraordinarily important undertaking, and you are in an exceptional environment. This institution and team are home to leaders who are deeply passionate about their work—a legacy rooted in Academician Lu Daopei, whose influence is pervasive here. The vision he embodies and the values he has instilled in his children, Peggy and Daniel, are truly inspirational. You are in a remarkable setting, surrounded by impactful advancements in the field, and you are part of a global effort to improve patient care. Honestly, I can say that pursuing a career in this field is one of the most extraordinary paths one can take. My message to young professionals is this: using science and technology to help people is an incredible endeavor, and there truly is no more meaningful pursuit than this.
專家簡介
陸佩華 教授
北京陸道培血液病研究院
陸道培醫(yī)院醫(yī)療執(zhí)行院長
北京陸道培血液病研究院院長
畢業(yè)于北京大學(xué)醫(yī)學(xué)院，在美國內(nèi)布拉斯加大學(xué)醫(yī)學(xué)中心完成住院醫(yī)師培訓(xùn)，隨后畢業(yè)于美國斯坦福大學(xué)血液及腫瘤?？?/p>
美國腫瘤以及血液病專科協(xié)會認(rèn)證的血液及腫瘤專家，具有美國血液病專科醫(yī)生，腫瘤?？漆t(yī)生執(zhí)照以及中國行醫(yī)執(zhí)照
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醫(yī)學(xué)界價值醫(yī)療泰山獎2021年度醫(yī)療管理獎獲得者
Robert Negrin 教授
斯坦福大學(xué)醫(yī)學(xué)教授
曾于2000至2020年間擔(dān)任血液與骨髓移植科主任。他本科畢業(yè)于加州大學(xué)伯克利分校，后獲哈佛大學(xué)醫(yī)學(xué)博士學(xué)位。在斯坦福大學(xué)完成內(nèi)科學(xué)及血液學(xué)?？婆嘤?xùn)后，他于1990年加入教研團(tuán)隊(duì)。
其研究工作聚焦于細(xì)胞免疫學(xué)領(lǐng)域，重點(diǎn)探究動物模型及臨床環(huán)境中移植物抗宿主反應(yīng)與移植物抗腫瘤反應(yīng)等復(fù)雜生物作用的深層機(jī)制。已發(fā)表300余篇原創(chuàng)論文、40篇專著章節(jié)并參與編纂一部專著。
曾獲多項(xiàng)榮譽(yù)，包括Doris Duke杰出臨床科學(xué)家獎，并當(dāng)選美國醫(yī)師協(xié)會會員。
曾擔(dān)任國際細(xì)胞治療學(xué)會主席及美國血液與骨髓移植學(xué)會主席
曾任《血液》期刊副主編并創(chuàng)辦《血液進(jìn)展》期刊
2025年就任美國血液學(xué)會候任主席，并于2026年正式擔(dān)任主席職務(wù)。
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